A Capstone Conversation With Bonnie Buol Ruszczyk

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Bonnie Buol Ruszczyk, President of BBR Marketing. Hello, this is Jean Caragher, President of Capstone Marketing. I am very pleased to be talking today with Bonnie Buol Ruszczyk, President of BBR Marketing and the 2014 Association for Accounting Marketing (AAM) Volunteer of the Year.

Bonnie formed BBR Marketing five years ago, and works with a variety of professional services firms. She has been in the creative and marketing services community for over 20 years, and writes and contributes to various publications and media, including Social Media Today, Accounting Today and other industry-related publications. Bonnie is a founding member of the Atlanta Independent Women’s Network and is the Atlanta Chapter President of the Association for Accounting Marketing where she has increased participation and the quality of the program for the chapter for local and regional participants.

Jean: Bonnie, congratulations on being named the 2014 AAM Volunteer of the Year.

Bonnie: Thank you very much. It’s quite an honor.

Jean: Is it true that you weren’t feeling well that night?

Bonnie: Here’s the situation. I actually had the flu at the AAM Conference last year, and I was running a 100 or 101 degree fever just about the whole time. I went down to the event and was trying to make it through to hear some of the awards. I got down there, had a snack and a glass of wine and said, “I’m done.” So, I went upstairs. Not ten minutes later I get a call from Laura Snyder, who said, “Where are you?” to which I replied, “I’m in my yoga pants upstairs.” She told me to come back down, and I told her no. So sadly, I was not there to actually get my award in person.

Jean: We’ll have to give you another round of applause next year. That just wasn’t fair that you weren’t able to be acknowledged like that in person.

Bonnie: Oh, that was just fine. I’m honored by it.

Jean: Well, it’s well deserved. Bonnie, you have lots of experience in accounting and in the professional services arena. What do you think is the greatest challenge in marketing CPA firms?

Bonnie: I think there are a number of challenges that they face, but I think one of the biggest ones that we come across is that CPA firms have a very hard time differentiating themselves. Therefore, the public at large see them all as interchangeable, and somewhat the same. What’s happening over time is that it starts commoditizing the industry. So, determining that differentiation or what sets them apart and what makes them special in their particular industry and then communicating that in a way that your audiences are going to really understand – that seems to be one of the biggest challenges that we see consistently with firms all around the country, regardless of size.

Jean: What do you think is the best way for CPA firms to go about that?

Bonnie: We have been trying to help firms do that for the last five years, and a lot of times it takes being very direct and very honest, getting partners in a room and asking a whole lot of questions about what it is that makes them different. Do they serve a particular industry? Are they the low price leader? That’s not something that most people go after, but somebody has to own that space. If you do, you might as well go for it full force.

Do you have staff that has training that other firms don’t have? A differentiator can be a wide variety of different things, but you can sell different. It’s very hard to sell great. What I see is lots of firms trying to sell great, and yet haven’t quite figured out what makes them different.

“What I see is lots of firms trying to sell great, and yet haven’t quite figured out what makes them different.”

Jean: It’s really digging in and doing the research that’s necessary to figure out what that differentiator is?

Bonnie: Yes, absolutely, and getting buy in on that from all the partners, too. If that’s the message that you’re going to be going to market with, then everybody needs to be relatively comfortable with that and the idea of singing from the same songbook.

Jean: What changes have you noticed in accounting marketing over the past five years?

Bonnie: Let me see, five years ago was 2009. I think firms are more and more open to making marketing a part of their overall strategy and trying things that they may have shunned five to 10 years ago.

Jean: What would they have shunned before that you think they are open to now?

Bonnie: I’m seeing more and more firms on Twitter, and, of course, Twitter was fairly new five years ago. Firms are starting to be open to the idea of social media in general. Before it just seemed a silly thing for a professional firm to do and to not even bother with.

I’m seeing much more interesting bios on websites, or maybe it’s just the firms we’re working with, but they are more willing to show a little personality. They demonstrate that they are absolutely professional and incredibly well trained and knowledgeable about what they do, but they also have families and hobbies and do things just like all the rest of us do. I’m seeing more humanizing of the providers in the industry.

Jean: They are more authentic, if you will.

Bonnie: Yes, I think so. All things being equal, people will choose to work with people they like, and especially on something that can be intense and personal. They are going to pick somebody that they have something in common with, or like the personality traits they are demonstrating. It can actually lead to a lot more business, as well.

Jean: Yes, because you all know that prospects are doing their research online for their CPA firms when they’re going through that process. It’s to a firm’s benefit to have that more authentic or different types of information that prospects can review.

Bonnie: Absolutely; it makes sense.

Jean: We’ve talked about the prior five years, so if you look ahead to the next five years, what are your predictions for accounting marketing?

Bonnie: I think we’re going to continue to see marketing playing a bigger and I hope more important role at firms. I think we’re going to see a lot more smaller firms embracing some of the marketing tactics that the larger firms have been using for a long time. I think social media is going to continue to grow and become a factor. On the big scale I think those within firms that have business development and networking skills and can go out and bring in business are going to be and continue to be those that reach partner level quicker, and are recognized for those efforts.

“Those within firms that have business development and networking skills and can go out and bring in business are going to be and continue to be those that reach partner level quicker.”

I hope we see a lot more training on what is referred to as soft skills, among the various levels of staff within firms, so that marketing is out there doing their job. If business development isn’t happening as well, then a lot of times those efforts are in vain. So making sure that the entire firm is on the same page and working toward the same goal.

Jean: In your experience, do you find that firms are providing their people with enough training? And, let me add something to that. Do you find the partners leading that effort, or do you see more of ‘I’ve done that in my career, and now it’s their turn to figure it out?’

Bonnie: I know exactly what you’re talking about. I don’t see as much training as I think we need in the industry. I have actually had conversations with some of the more senior partners who were like, “Well, I had to go out there and figure it out on my own, so they ought to be able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and do it themselves.”

But, when you’re looking at the big picture, investing a little bit in trying to train the staff to have these broader skills that are going to bring in more business just makes sense; things like how do you get the most out of LinkedIn. I actually led training a couple of years ago on what to do at a networking event, which for those of us in marketing seems like, well, of course, we know what to do at a networking event. People that have not done a lot of that, it really does help them realize the nerves that they’re feeling are normal. This is how you can navigate the waters so that you get the most out of the experience without feeling horrible at the end of it, because you just had to sit in the corner.

I have seen some partners that have really gotten behind it, but I think most of the firms where I see good training going on, and programs like this in place, it tends to be spearheaded by either the marketing person or the firm administrator who sees the value and has gotten even reluctant buy-in to pay for whatever needs to be paid for. I’d love to see more partners get behind the whole idea.

Jean: What are the factors or skills that you think enable accounting marketers to be successful?

Bonnie: I think you have to have thick skin in some cases because a lot of times marketing is misunderstood. Marketing is not valued as much as it should be, and you spend a lot of time fighting some uphill battles.

I think you have to have a level of confidence where you know what you’re talking about, and you can talk to partners, and a room full of partners, and be able to communicate your message in a way that they are going to understand and appreciate. A lot of that comes down to confidence, being able to say, yes, this is what the case is, and this is why, and this is what we need.

Another thing is we need to know the business. We need to understand. I’m not saying you need to go out and prepare a business’ tax return. But we need to understand the terminology used in the business, how accounting firms make their money and how partnerships are set up, so that the strategic thinking that we put in place is based on the reality that these partners are living day to day.

“We need to understand the terminology used in the business, how accounting firms make their money and how partnerships are set up, so that the strategic thinking that we put in place is based on the reality that these partners are living day to day.”

Jean: In addition to the marketing skills that they need, they need those personal qualities as well, in order to be successful.

Bonnie: Yes.

Jean: Which of your personal skills do you think contributes most to your own success?

Bonnie: Wow! You know, I think some of it is, for better or worse, I have managed to communicate a certain level of confidence that firm partners seem to appreciate, or at least understand. But, honestly, I think one of the things is that my firm just celebrated its five year anniversary.

Jean: Congratulations.

Bonnie: Thank you.

Jean: That’s a big deal.

Bonnie: It is, yes. Somebody sent me an article that said something like 17% of businesses make it to the fifth year. So, I poured myself a nice big glass of wine to celebrate that. But part of it is I have had good and bad experiences prior to starting this firm, and I wanted to make sure that I created an environment that was very honest. We’re a laid back group of people and we communicate that way. We act that way. We send out Halloween cards rather than Christmas cards, our end of year holiday cards.

Some people appreciate that and some people may find it a little bit campier or frivolous but we’ve managed to find that group of clients that really appreciate that level of honesty and direct communication. That’s helped us get where we are today. Not everybody is going to love it, but we’ve found a lot that do, so that’s very good.

Jean: Wonderful. What is your best piece of advice for accounting marketers?

Bonnie: I am going to go back to something I was saying before, find that level of confidence. Don’t let others within the firm knock you down or make you question your abilities, your knowledge or your skills. I have seen this happen so often.

“I am going to go back to something I was saying before, find that level of confidence. Don’t let others within the firm knock you down or make you question your abilities, your knowledge or your skills.”

Have that level of confidence that you’re bringing knowledge to the table that most of the people at the firm do not have. Present your ideas and stick to them as much as you can, because the rest of the firm, they’re accountants. They are very good at what they do, they are very smart people but they are not marketers and they don’t have the knowledge and the skills that you have. That’s why you are there.

Jean: On the flip side, what is your best piece of advice for managing partners?

Bonnie: I’m going to flip that script and say, make sure that they are working with marketers that understand the industry. They give marketing the level of respect that it needs to really impact the firm. Sarah, who works on my team, had an article in Accounting Today that was all about giving marketing the respect that it deserves. Marketing should have a seat at partner meetings, or at least at firm management meetings. Include your marketing people or person in your strategic sessions, where you’re thinking about where the firm wants to be in the next five years, because they are going to be a big part of reaching that goal and hopefully growing at the pace that you want.

Everybody has their specific areas of expertise and knowledge and where they can contribute, so be open to allowing the marketing person to contribute where they can.

Jean: Let me ask you, what level of marketer do you feel should be attending management or partner meetings?

Bonnie: I think it does need to be a senior marketer. That is a little bit of a challenge, because what happens is they hire somebody very young and green. They can definitely add something to the firm, but they’re probably not going to have that level of experience that allows them to bring a strategic level of thinking. If you have a marketing director, or a C-level marketer at your firm, they’ve reached that level through many, many years of experience and hard work, and they can probably contribute a lot to the conversation.

Jean: Let me say that there’s more to Bonnie than BBR Marketing. She enjoys spending time with her husband, and their two dogs, reading, writing, renovating her attic…I’d love to hear more about that one…cooking, and hanging out with friends. Word on the street is that she throws a mean party. Bonnie, let me ask you, what was the best party that you’ve hosted?

Bonnie: The best party that I hosted is now in its 11th year, and, believe it or not, it is the Saturday before Thanksgiving, a friends-only Thanksgiving party. That sounds very boring. It’s just this big potluck. I think we started out with 20. There was one year where we had 120 people at this party.

It kind of ebbs and flows a little bit. Everybody shows off their Grandma’s best recipe ever. I host it with another woman, and all we do is we make one turkey and one ham, and buy two bottles of wine and a six pack of beer and say, “Come on in everybody and have a good time.” It’s grown into this crazy thing, and I get phone calls the next day and apologies from people who are like, “I’m so sorry; I got so drunk at your Thanksgiving Party.”

It’s hysterical when you think about the fact that it’s a whole roomful of 30, 40, 50-year-old people. For some reason they want to let their hair down before they go see their family for their real Thanksgiving dinner.

Jean: Awesome. We’ve been talking today with Bonnie Buol Ruszczyk, the 2014 AAM Volunteer of the Year. Bonnie, congratulations again.

Bonnie: Thank you.

Podcast

A Capstone Conversation With Veronica Rodriguez

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Veronica Rodriguez, Marketing and Business Development Specialist Hello, this is Jean Caragher, President of Capstone Marketing. I am very pleased to be talking today with Veronica Rodriguez, Marketing and Business Development Specialist at PDR Certified Public Accountants in Tampa, Florida, and the 2015 Association for Accounting Marketing (AAM) Rookie of the Year.

Veronica joined PDR in January 2014 after graduating from the University of Tampa in December 2013 with a Bachelor of Science in Business Administration, International Business, and Marketing. She was hired by PDR to help grow the firm by developing and executing low budget digital marketing campaigns. Veronica is also certified in advanced search engine marketing strategies.

Jean: Congratulations, Veronica, and welcome to the Capstone Conversation.

Veronica: Hi. Thank you so much.

Jean: How does it feel to be the AAM Rookie of the Year?

Veronica: It’s a great honor, honestly. I feel like all my hard work has paid off throughout this last year and a half. The support of my firm has enabled me to win this award and change the marketing for the firm, so I’m very excited.

Jean: Absolutely. I know you also serve on one of the AAM committees.

Veronica: Yes, the AAM Minute newsletter that goes out each month. We try and come up with content for all the accounting marketers to update them on trends.

Jean: This is a fine example, everyone, of how Veronica joined AAM and dove right in and participated on a committee. We always encourage everybody to do that, so thank you for doing that.

Veronica: Yes, of course. I wanted to learn more about the industry. I figured this would be a great way to get a support group of marketers and then learn about how to market the industry at the same time.

Jean: Very smart decision on your part. That’s why you’re the Rookie of the Year. You’ve been in this profession less than two years. In that short period of time, tell me what you think the greatest challenge is in marketing CPA firms.

Veronica: I came right out of college, and this has been the first position they’ve ever had for a marketer. I guess the greatest challenge, which I think a lot of the accounting marketers can relate to, is communicating the value of the marketing position for a CPA firm. We only have 35 people, so trying to communicate to the shareholder group that we can promote the brand and actually grow the brand awareness of the firm. The hardest part of it is trying to allocate a specific budget and explaining why we should have that budget for marketing.

“I guess the greatest challenge, which I think a lot of the accounting marketers can relate to, is communicating the value of the marketing position for a CPA firm.”

Jean: How have you gone about doing that?

Veronica: For the year and a half I’ve been here, I started to work on some small projects. I created a whole new website for them.

Jean: One of the small projects was to create a whole new website for the firm …

Veronica: I know. It’s crazy. We did everything in house. Basically, it was through a WordPress template. I bought a new template and revamped the content that was on it. It was more about how the website looks. They had an older version, so I just tried to enhance that. Then, I did a lot of the social media. As we started to do these little things, a lot of our clients started to notice and they started to compliment the shareholders. They wanted to see how they could get a marketer of their own.

Little things like that enhanced our brand and started to convince them that marketing is something they needed and an important role for the firm. Even our marketing collateral was enhanced. That convinced them that this position is a value for the firm.

Jean: Your efforts were validated by your client base and feedback?

Veronica: Yes, which is surprising. They compliment on everything that we’re doing and they’ve seen the changes. PDR has been running the same way for 40 years. This has been the first year that they’ve had a whole new marketing landscape.

Jean: You have some fabulous stats in your Rookie of the Year nomination. In 2014, there was a 375% increase of social media followers and positive client feedback pertaining to the campaign and the website. How did you go about doing that?

Veronica: The firm had just joined the BDO Alliance when I started. I wanted to capture that and show the community that we’re now part of this Alliance. We’re a local firm, but we have all of these resources that we can utilize that national firms use. That’s how I created a campaign, Local Firm. National Level Resources. I broadcasted that all throughout our marketing collateral, including social media. No one was working on their social media, so that statistic of 375% was basically our Twitter followers.

In the beginning, I hadn’t decided that Twitter was really something we should do, because you have to focus on it every day and make sure there’s a lot of content for it. From our LinkedIn, we grew from 40 followers to now about 268. That was the main thing I focused on at first.

Then, Twitter started in December when we began to have a lot more content on our website that I could share. That grew from 30 followers to 240. That was just from December to around March or April. It’s been a good transition. What I’ve noticed is that our engagement has increased. We talk to our not-for-profits in a different way. It is more relationship building. When I communicated that to the firm, they noticed how our relationship started to grow. We got even more compliments on all of our content through Twitter. I noticed that Twitter engagement was a lot more important than LinkedIn because we got to engage with them in a different way.

Jean: Isn’t that interesting? When I think back on how we used to market accounting firms and what is at our disposal now, the resources that we have through social media and all the different ways you can communicate, it does open a lot of doors.

Veronica: Twitter, specifically, is just a way to give back to them. What I’ve noticed with LinkedIn, you just post articles and they can share it. But with Twitter, you get to retweet the things that your clients are doing, or your prospects. So it’s helping each other out to share the services that everyone offers. That’s what I like about it.

“But with Twitter, you get to retweet the things that your clients are doing, or your prospects. So it’s helping each other out to share the services that everyone offers. That’s what I like about it.”

Jean: You made an important point there because you were able to start tweeting more when there was more content on your website. You have to have something to tweet about, so the development of the content and the resources was very important. Also, since the summer of 2014, the website generated over 30 leads. Tell us about that.

Veronica: It was exciting. With our new website template, we got to integrate our CRM system. PDR had a CRM system through InfusionSoft, but it wasn’t organized. A lot of our client practice management system of our whole client database wasn’t in it, and we didn’t really integrate it with the website at all.

A good feature about our CRM system is that you’re able to do inbound lead generation with it. Once we started to generate more content, I was able to produce landing pages, offer whitepapers, presentations, and all of our webinars. That is when it started to generate leads. We got a lot of people that wanted to get the whitepapers and wanted to sign up for the webinars. It ended up being very interesting because it was another thing that I could show the shareholder group about the value in this as long as you’re keeping up with it.

Jean: When you can show them numbers, they’re really impressed with that, right?

Veronica: Exactly. Everything intertwines. You have your content marketing, but without the specific keywords that people are typing in to look for your content, it all coincides with each other. As I learned the key phrases that people were looking for, I could generate the content. From there, I can develop whitepapers and it was just all one big mix.

Jean: Again, I know you’ve been in this profession just a short time and you know what some of the challenges are and you’re developing your network of accounting marketers. What is your prediction for accounting marketing in the next five years?

Veronica: My prediction is everything is going to be more niched. Specialization of services, which was mentioned a lot throughout the conference. Basically, trying to figure out what differentiates your firm compared to everyone else. That’s doing the traditional accounting services. For instance, we’re trying to go more for the R&D tax credits. That’s a big niche that not very many firms have much knowledge or expertise in. That’s something we’re trying to do.

I can predict that as being a big change. Another one is relationship building. We focus a lot on timesheets and recording time, but not on building those relationships with our clients, prospects and referrals. A lot more of that is going to start changing the industry a bit where we have to start focusing on creating those relationships as opposed to just getting the service done, and then that’s it. We’re trying to create that loyalty within our client base and our referrals, because that’s who gives us our clients. I think that’ll change for the industry.

“We’re trying to create that loyalty within our client base and our referrals, because that’s who gives us our clients. I think that’ll change for the industry.”

Jean: With the marketers that you’ve met, what factors or skills did they have that enabled them to be successful? What have you noticed?

Veronica: I’ve noticed that a lot of marketers have very good interpersonal skills. Another one is content. Being able to be a great writer, nowadays, and being a thought leader is going to be an important skill to develop in a marketer’s career. The digital savviness you are going to need. Everything is in a digital world nowadays. In order to have those different skills, content leads, the digital, just having all of those put together would really put that marketer at an advantage.

“Being able to be a great writer, nowadays, and being a thought leader is going to be an important skill to develop in a marketer’s career.”

Jean: Speaking of all of this social and digital media, Eric Majchrzak, who everybody knows, is fabulous marketer, and the Marketer of the Year this year. He described it in a fabulous way: that firms need to take what they’ve done in the real world, the brand they’ve built and the skills they have and the niches and everything else, and they need to translate that into the digital world. I thought that was a very simple way of describing what firms need to do.

Veronica: Yes, he’s so great. He’s helped me out a lot since the conference. We were able to share ideas.

Jean: He’s a great guy, yes. I’ll be talking to him soon, too. Which of your personal skills has contributed most to your own success?

Veronica: I think my interpersonal skills and being able to learn all the digital material that goes with it. When I first got here, I learned so much. I did research to see how to handle this position for a CPA firm since this is my first job coming out of college. I think my interpersonal skills came into play when I started to ask our Alliance member firms for advice.

Being a part of the AAM Minute newsletter, I learned to have that support group there and call them for help. Then, also just learning a lot in the digital landscape. Getting my SEO certification, learning about WordPress and website building, and social media and the way that everyone handles their own social media. You have to have your own story for your firm. This has helped me in my career so far with PDR.

Jean: This might be a more difficult question. Do marketers need to gain more power within their firms? And if they do, how can marketers do that?

Veronica: I think they do need to gain more power, but more in the strategic planning part of it. Sitting down with the managing partners and discussing how they see things. Managing partners and marketers see the firm in two different perspectives. To be able to bring that marketing perspective to the table and show them what other marketers are doing and how you have to stand out from all the CPA firms in your target market, will bring them to that table of strategic planning.

Without marketing, you can’t foresee where their brand will go. They always think about where they’re going to be for the next five years in terms of their services and business development, but the brand and how to enhance that awareness in your target market is key to bringing that business development for the firm.

“To be able to bring that marketing perspective to the table and show them what other marketers are doing and how you have to stand out from all the CPA firms in your target market, will bring them to that table of strategic planning.”

Jean: What is your best piece of advice for your fellow accounting marketers?

Veronica: To build that relationship with the managing partner. If you at least have them on your side, and they’re able to convince the others about the value of your position, is big for the firm. Sitting down with him, getting to know him as a person and having him get to know you.

Jean: That’s critical. One of the interesting things — I’m sure you’ve noticed this, and we’ve touched upon it here today – is that marketers are hired within CPA firms, yet you still need to prove your value in what you bring to the table. I find that so interesting. Even after decades of being able to market and promote their firms, that one side of them is telling them, “Gosh, we need someone here in the marketing world to help us,” but there’s still a fear of what that means for them. When the marketer is brought on board, you still need to demonstrate what it’s all about.

Veronica: I see that at times, too. A lot of the shareholders or management will see marketing also as a business development role. It’s hard to differentiate the two when you’re talking to them, because marketers are usually for lead generation. We don’t do so much of the business development. For us to communicate our value, we start to do more business development because they expect us to do that. That’s also been a challenge on how to communicate that marketers don’t really do so much business development, but you can still get value out of your marketing.

Jean: That’s part of the education we need to keep giving them about what the differences are so their expectations are reasonable.

Veronica: Exactly.

Jean: Veronica, what’s your best piece of advice for managing partners?

Veronica: To adapt to change and be open-minded with marketers. Let the reigns off a little and take a risk with them because, eventually, you will see that it will work out and it will pay off by taking those little risks with the marketing group.

Jean: That’s not easy to do, right?

Veronica: Exactly.

Jean: Because not everyone’s a risk taker.

Veronica: Especially with small, traditional firms who have done things the same way for so long, it might be the hardest.

Jean: We have been talking today with Veronica Rodriguez, the Marketing and Business Development Specialist at PDR CPAs, and the 2015 Association for Accounting Marketing Rookie of the Year. Veronica, congratulations again and thank you for your time today.

Veronica: Thank you so much.